Bec don't do it!

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Bec don't do it!

Post by gerry on Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:37 am

You are essentially do Buddy for Hocking!
McLean is a hack!

Put Buddy on the open market!

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Megabonus on Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:59 am

can we confirm that Bec will be in the league in 2013????

if not, all trades should be scrutinised by th exec!!!!

i mean...c'mon....buddy for hocking Shocked

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by gerry on Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:09 am

There is nothing we can do if Truck approves this deal.

We have discussed many times the value of each player in these trades and have concluded that the worth of each player can only be determined by the coaches involved in the trades.

If Truck is able to do this, we should congratulate him on his timing (holidays) and ability to do the deal under everyone's radar. But that's all.

I know a certain Banger/Raptors deal a few years ago was very much like this but we have moved on since then. There is no other way of dealing with it IMHO.

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Megabonus on Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:20 am

what if bec isnt in the league nxt year??????

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Macca on Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:51 am

I think this question does need responding too.

Will Bec be in the competition 2013?

If she isn't and she's made that decision then this trade is awfully dodgy.
Obviously well done to Shannon to get such a deal done but it stinks a bit to me.

Ps I'm not saying Shannon knows she's out... But if Bec does she's doing the wrong thing by everyone.

My two cents
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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Macca on Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:59 am

Not to mention the list that will be left behind if she leaves!

I will state again that if she's staying no problem it's her call.
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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Bec on Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:24 am

Just so everyone knows...I am still undecided as to whether I will coach the Wolves next year - and I do not see how this would matter with the trade anyway? Unlike the majority of you all...it hasn't really been that fun sitting at the bottom of the ladder for the past two plus years but I have run with it and put my best team forward to the best of my ability (which is obviously lacking!) I chose to trade Buddy to Tigers....it is not "awfully dodgy"...you just have sour grapes cos he is not going to your team. In reality this is just a game peoples... where has the fun gone????????????????

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Bec on Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:27 am

Oh...and cos my list is so shit Macca why would I want to continue?

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Macca on Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:30 am

Bec, this is not sour grapes for me.

No-one is criticising your efforts or your passion. FWIW I think you are incredibly bubbly and great in our league.

Sure I'd love Buddy but I would think the more important issue is getting fair compensation for the best player in the competition.
Mclean and Hocking does not represent anywhere near that. Nowhere near it

If you decided to trade Buddy, given he is the best player in the comp, you could have made it an open auction...then if you were still in next year you would have been able to truly rebuild that way.

As an example (and yes its after the fact) I would have offered...

One of Dane Swan or Dayne Beams
plus one of Ryan Griffen or Matthew Pavlich.

I can assure you that if you do stay in the league, your results will now get worse.

Buddy, with Ablett and one or two others are the absolute elite in our game.
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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Bec on Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:39 am

Thanks Macca...I see your point (seriously I do) however, I truly believe this is a game of luck - to see teams win with shit scores week in week out, while me and my apparent shit list losing with better scores (most of the time) is a joke. This is a game of luck my friend with no talent, skill, knowledge etc assuring you of consistent victories...this is my opinion of course, however I also respect the opinion of all other coaches who beg to differ!!! I will continue to do my best and try and have some fun with this season anyway.

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by trucker on Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:51 am

can someone state the difference in inequity between this trade and the warthogs vipers deal??

Bec is great in our league,

I have been persistently pursuing Bec for buddy, daily for years

Bec and I have languished at the bottom of the ladder exchanging wooden spoons for years also

deal is done, and all can eat their sour grapes

you would all think differently if you were able to trade buddy to your teams

my two cents worth anyway

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Macca on Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:12 am

Few questions Shannon:

Is it win win?

Does Bec, who you have highlighted as struggling at the bottom, gain some upside?

What are McLeans and Hockings numbers like?

Let's be transparent

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Milnee on Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:07 am

Well Done Bec a bold move and as always has antagonised the league.
Once again we hear the same people whinging about equitable trades. They also happen to be at the top of the ladder with incredibly strong teams. I truly believe the gap is growing between the rich and the poor and because the very best are locked away in each team not much will change in the next few years. By the way Selwood and Swallow would not have helped me win a single game since I traded them. In deed Swallow has only had one great game since I traded five weeks ago. In the mean time Bennell, Atley Treloar and Lewis have all contributed positively to the Warthogs and maybe just maybe they are the sort of risks you have to take to rebuild.
My final two cents worth if the criticism and abuse continuing regarding trades continues we may as well write that section out of the constitution. alternatively all coaches must approve the trade in which case nothing would ever happen in the league. truly trading used to be the most exciting part of our fantasy league now it is the ugliest.

In the meantime I would have given you Johncock and Doughty for Buddy fair trade!!!
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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Macca on Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:24 am

You know Richard, I really take offence to the term you constantly ring out 'whingers' whilst bluntly pointing it at people such as myself.

In my opinion you've been one of the biggest whiners in the competition. How does that go down with you?

I actually cannot believe you make the point that the strong are getting stronger locking players away yet support giving up Franklin for McLean and Hocking.

One more thing: the reason some teams are at the top and some are not may have something to do with this very fact. Either that or actual skill in picking in the first place. Think about it.

But... I will just shut up now and let those who are at the bottom trade away the talent they have.



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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Megabonus on Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:24 am

c'mon......lets get real......

while i wont show my real hand (as in what i really would offer for franklin)...from the list of players i have listed that are up for trade, i wouldve given them all....

thats

stevie J (retain in top tier at 28yo)
Mitch Clarke (retain top tier - will carry the goal kicking burden at the Dees)
Wellingham (middle tier - a little like headland when at brisbane, he's young and his numbers are on the up)
MacKay (bottom tier - ave 5 tackles + young)
Ellis (bottom tier - in his first year....will be a gun)
Melksham (bottom tier - pick 38 FFS....will be a gun)


not sour grapes!!! just bewilderment!!!!

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Macca on Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:25 am

Bingo Pez
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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Jason on Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:50 am

FWIW this is my point of view. Trades always happen and there are always people upset by them. Thats the game.

Is it a fair trade? On the surface it doesnt appear so. Hocking is a good tackler and whilst McLean puts up good numbers he isnt a lock to play each week. But there is nothing in the rules that state a trade has to be a win win for both sides.

So with that said from my point of view the only issue would be if Bec and Shannon had been talking and Bec had said she wasnt playing next year and therefore gifted Shannon Buddy. But Pez/Macca how do you prove that? Bec has said she is unsure about next year and I take her word on that. I dont think she has intentionally done anything sly to help Shannon, she unfortunately did not understand the value of Buddy. Why she didnt shop him around is a mystery to me, but thats her right to deal with who she wants.

So in a nutshell, do I like the trade? Of course not, I wanted Buddy. But that is hardly grounds to have the trade reversed. Of course this is just my opinion, Gerry and Croz may feel differently.

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Megabonus on Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:05 am

let me put croz up as an example of a coach with ethics.......


many seasons ago, croz and I negotiated a deal (cant remember the players involved except the sweetner). croz thought he was getting the better end by far and felt bad enough to 'throw me a sweetner'...a young scott thompson....the rest as they say in the classics is 'history'.

shame on you you truck....shame shame!!! Very Happy

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by trucker on Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:20 pm

to be transparent

i offered, hocking, mclean, cox, enright and kane cornes for buddy

bec wanted picked also, but i said picked was not an option

becs reply was she had ruckmen so did not want cox, she also stated that she did not rate enright or cornes(three players that have good numbers this year) hence the final trade only included hocking and mclean

am i happy? of course, do i understand some coaches disappointment, yes, as I feel the same when some other trades are done and I miss a gun

i always seek trades and often they don't occur, this one did
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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Megabonus on Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:38 pm

c'mon truck....you wanna be really transparent....tell us what you really think....

this trade will go down as the 'steal of the century'.....it is the most one sided trade in ASFFL/GCFFL history....

but once again...cudos to you....

BTW....who do you want for cornes???

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by gerry on Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:03 am

Each time these crazy deals happen there are always calls for the Exec to do 'sometihing'. Maybe I'm stuffed from barracking fir a real team (SA) in a real sport (volleyball) but I can't think of any action that can be taken by Exec in this or any other trading situation.
From what people have said, both coaches did the deal with their eyes wide open and both were honest in their intentions. That's good enough for me.
Once again if others have a solution, put it up for discussion and we can vote on it. One possibility could be a two- day cooling off period.
Anyway, back to the real issue.
This game sucks. I hope Wellington gets the Boot for what he did to Simpson!

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Megabonus on Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:06 am

re: wellingham.....just following orders....he'll get 3-4 weeks!!!!

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by gerry on Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:28 am

Some interesting stats:
Dream Team Value:
Lance Franklin: $531,600
Brock McLean: $334,300
Heath Hocking: $310,000

SuperCoach Value:
Lance Franklin: $631,800
Brock McLean: $415,200
Heath Hocking: $342,000

By these inadequate measures of value, Bec wins.

In our league:
Brock McLean averaging: 57.2 All Star points
Heath Hocking averaging: 47.7 All Star points

Buddy Franklin averaging: 83.4 All Star points

Again by this inadequate method, Bec wins again - at least in All star averages.

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Macca on Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:04 am

Yeah tow the line Gerry.
That's ridiculous and you and everyone knows it!
Is Bec able to play both as one all star to outdo Buddy's 83 (!!!) average?
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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by gerry on Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:58 am

Macca wrote:Yeah tow the line Gerry.
That's ridiculous and you and everyone knows it!
Is Bec able to play both as one all star to outdo Buddy's 83 (!!!) average?

That's not my point.
I am trying to find some way of 'valuing' each player in the league.
The stats I have access to are inadequate because they don't show how the coach values each player.
I would imagine that McLean may play in possessions (averaging 23) and Hooker in tackles (averaging 4.7).
This suits Bec and may free up other players.
Therefore they are just as 'valuable' to her as Buddy.
This is pure guesswork on my part but I trying to show how hard it is to put an objective 'value' on these trades so that we can say that a certain trade is within or beyond the spirit of the game.

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Macca on Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:02 am

Yeah and who will she put in AS?

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Megabonus on Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:18 am

FFS......if i could get franklin for waters (ave 22 possies + 8 marks) and mackey (ave 4.8 tackles) - both bottom tier...i would be absolutely rapped...

BTW - when murphy and simpson return to carltons midfield, mclean will not only get dropped but his place on the carlton list is in question. if carlton dont push for a flag, they will want to get games into his replacement...one kane lucas...this is not my opinion but the word from th inside!!!

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Re: Bec don't do it!

Post by Megabonus on Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:30 am

BTW Gezza.....When you click on the Wolves team....it comes up with the Warthogs...

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