Truckers clariying statement

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Truckers clariying statement

Post by trucker on Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:28 am

Please note that my considering departing the competition is not based on where I have finished the season. While not happy that I hold the wooden spoon, someone has to get it and on this occasion it is me.

I preface what im about to say as not being a personal attack on anyone or the work they put into the league

I feel that the current format of the competition has become very sterile and dull.

our game has evolved into a great game, and i miss the the good old days, that is what got me interested in the first place. the banter, the ridecule and the trading is all gone.

While our team identity is of great importance as a result of retaining players, it has unfortunately got the point on near impossibe to trade, a great component of the game, and hense the sterile nature of the game

I think gerry wrote, the birth of my son has seen a number of things change in my life, and yes i agree. my time with Ethan is invaluable, but i m happy to commit to a game as great as our with others that are as passionate about the game as I am.

to submit a team and not knowing who you are playing sucks. too many times have i relied on croz or gerry to post the teams so i can see who i am playing,

people not taking part in the AGM shits me

i wish all teams well still playing for the flag, while i ponder my decision to play on
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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by croz on Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:36 am

Trucker...I for one really hope you dont pull the pin.

It would be great to have a meeting with all coaches in person to see where we can make changes.

I personally dont agree with scrapping retainees, but I certainly think that we retain too many players...this is where the sting has gone out of the game (for some/most?).

Anyway...I will keep that for another discussion.

Hang in there. Dont go anywhere. The ASFFL wouldnt be the same without the Truckers Football Club.

I hope all is going well with Trucker Jnr!

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by gerry on Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:17 am

trucker wrote:Please note that my considering departing the competition is not based on where I have finished the season. While not happy that I hold the wooden spoon, someone has to get it and on this occasion it is me.

I preface what im about to say as not being a personal attack on anyone or the work they put into the league

I feel that the current format of the competition has become very sterile and dull.

our game has evolved into a great game, and i miss the the good old days, that is what got me interested in the first place. the banter, the ridecule and the trading is all gone.

While our team identity is of great importance as a result of retaining players, it has unfortunately got the point on near impossibe to trade, a great component of the game, and hense the sterile nature of the game

I think gerry wrote, the birth of my son has seen a number of things change in my life, and yes i agree. my time with Ethan is invaluable, but i m happy to commit to a game as great as our with others that are as passionate about the game as I am.

to submit a team and not knowing who you are playing sucks. too many times have i relied on croz or gerry to post the teams so i can see who i am playing,

people not taking part in the AGM shits me

i wish all teams well still playing for the flag, while i ponder my decision to play on

So would it help if we had a way of trading that was easier that it is now?

I am just trying to pin you down a little on some of the things that have pissed you off.

As far as I am concerned, this season's final table is testament to how good (and I mean even) the competition has become.

It has become harder to interact with each other but we just need to be a little more creative in the ways we communicate.

Try to detail what the problems are so that we can deal with it.

BTW: don't discount the effect that your results this year are having on your opinion. I've been there plenty of times and felt like chucking it in (in fact I did after my third year). Maybe just chill for a week, or so, enjoy your family and then come back to us with your thoughts.

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by Jason on Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:47 am

I agree Gerry, the ladder this year has been a testament to the current system and setup. Especially when you look at the teams that didnt make it ie Truckers & Mustangs. I think most would have at the very least, had the Truckers in their top 8 at the start of the year.

That said, I also agree with Shannon on how hard it is to get a trade done. However I dont believe the tier system is the biggest issue. Yes I concede it makes it a bit harder but IMO the biggest issue is the lack of active coaches in the league prevents more deals being done. It is very hard to get anything done when you are always hitting up the same 4-5 coaches.




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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by Macca on Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:05 am

The most basic requirement to play the game is commitment to engage in playing it. Like anything...the passion to play will pay forward.

Rightly or wrongly, and without judging anyone; some do...and some do not have the passion. As Shannon has indicated, this is incredibly frustrating...obviously even more so when you are losing and seeing others, with no effort, winning.

My preference is that we limit entry to the league to those who can do two things;

1. Attend all official functions in their entirety (this means the draft and the AGM)
2. Submit their team on this board (and I believe this should be the only way to submit barring emergency)

The league DOES need review, mainly in regards to sprucing up everyone's interest for the challenge. Although (personally) it would harm me as I have sculpted a great list (thats not being boastful...its a fact that my list is in good shape), I would be happy to either limit or even scrap retainees to have lively, engaged and driven people involved.

Without being cocky, I have plenty to lose by scrapping retainees, but I would do so to have people engaged. I love this game and I too am aggrieved that others simply dont give a shit. Commitment is NOT simply throwing a team in each week by the way.

I think the most basic request for commitment we can muster is to set a date for the AGM and expect all lively, engaged and driven coaches to be there. Of course, we can and will try to accommodate peoples commitments, but maybe a Sunday afternoon would be ideal. Two hours of your life.

At that meeting, I believe we need to sort the game for the future, with a tiny peek backwards at what has been so great. Let's not lull about in what was great. Let's actually make it great for next year and beyond. If this means more great players back in the draft...so be it. If this means a rule that you need to trade three times each year, so be it.

We need a game for now with people who want to play it now, not dwell on what was.

I am going to support Shannon and say that if this does not seem like it can happen, I too am out.

I am at the point where I would then start a league with those who actually give a shit. Because I do.

End rant.

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by gerry on Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:58 pm

Macca wrote:

I am at the point where I would then start a league with those who actually give a shit. Because I do.

End rant.


I guess my point is: how do we define people who give a shit?

I know that Banger is shattered because he went from 1st to 5th and now faces elimination.
I can tell you that Bec already has her strategy worked out for next year's PSD.
I know that the Mustang coaches were baffled and bemused by their mid-season slump.
I can tell you that Jeffie is walking on cloud nine after getting some fabulous scores in recent weeks.
I know that Milnee is delighted at being able to Cassisi and Swallow other teams.

You can't measure commitment according to people's ability or willingness to come onto the board like we do. What we have to do is find better ways to get people engaged. [I actually like the idea of having to trade at least once a fortnight/month by the way.]

I think we have come a long way with the submission of teams for example. There were a few hiccoughs but, from my point of view, all coaches did the right thing 99% of the time in the way they submitted their teams.

There were no coaches who went on holiday and couldn't be bothered handing up their teams. Milnee moved house and lost internet access - yet still sent a message about the team he wanted every week!
Croz was lost in the wilds of Yorke Peninsula in places that hadn't even heard of the internet and yet he still sent me a message about his team.
You were in Sydney with no stats and still managed to get a message to us.

In fact, the more I think about the more amazed I am that we still have a viable competition. It allows people to be as involved as much as they want, to experience the highs and lows of 'coaching' and, most importantly, it is a medium for a group of mates to stay in touch.

By all means reflect on your participation and on the processes that we have in this league, but don't give it away because you perceive that some people are not passionate. It is my experience that everyone who is a part of this league has shown just as much passion - they just show it in different ways.

Don't take this a dig at you, Macca. I know that you mean the best for this competition. I just want to keep the discussion going.

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by Macca on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:07 pm

Fair enough.
Explain Andy then?
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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by trucker on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:10 pm

@ gezza, i am not pissed off, just reassessing a number of things

my main problem is motivation, i have it and a number of others do not

being beaten by teams that dont really commit is a problem, e.g. being beaten by the heroes sucked this year. andy didnt even attend the draft and gets a team that beats me during the minor round, where is the equity in that

i get nearly penalised for not emailing team to gerry and croz, and andy gets players selected randomly in the draft

peoples lack of comittment shits me, i want to trade and can only talk to evan gerry croz macca and jase, half the players in our game are unavailable due to the lack of communication to be had with other coaches

i was one that pushed for more retainees and the tiers, but it now appears that this system has it flaws and i was wrong. coaches overvalue players as a result of their tier position. i think the tier system could be tweaked(e.g. keeping x number of players, despite of tier structure they get placed at picks 25 to 35 and we all have the first 25 picks)

i think those that are serious about our game will attend an AGM, where we can sit down and evaluate our game
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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by Megabonus on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:12 pm

it gives me no delight to state..."i told you so".

the time, new rules, and resources amongst other reasons required to remain competative can be a put off to coaches who arent as 'passionate' as others.

i dont have a simple solution, which irks me as i started my rant with the "i told you so".

i would be happy to continue regardless of the direction we take.

3 choices....

#1 dismantle and start to appease the few disatisfied
#2 identify issues and modify what we have
#3 leave it alone and expect coaches to accept it as it is

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by Macca on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:13 pm

Dont attend the AGM...dont play. Simple.
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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by Jason on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:13 pm

Personally in my short time in the league I have found it hard to come to terms with the fact that not every coach is as committed as those of us who visit the forum regularly. I mean look at the top posters on the forum and you see that The Independent has posted more than 4 coaches!

In a perfect world we would have 12 coaches with the same passion and commitment as people like Macca and Gerry etc But im not sure that is ever going to happen.


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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by trucker on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:14 pm

perhaps being away from the where most coaches interact has seen my interest wain as i dont see that

my preference is afl dream team as at least i am in control and can draft
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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by Macca on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:15 pm

Yeah Jase, but no one is wanting everyone to be posting like us...but actually communicating would be a start.
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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by gerry on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:26 pm

Macca wrote:Fair enough.
Explain Andy then?

You know, despite the fact that he missed the PSD, he never missed a beat with sending in his team each week.

He had every reason to chuck it in giving the hand he dealt himself, but he didn't.

And I have to say, he probably submitted the best team he could each week - I never had any sense that his team was slapdash and last minute (although it could have been).

I personally won't be the one to say "sayonara" to Andy just because he didn't go to this years PSD.

@Trucker. Why might the effort of others determine your participation?

I personally have sweated over my team each week and, except for this year, continued to get beaten by people like Andy, who 'appear' to put no effort into his team.

However, I wouldn't have it any other way. My only concern has always been: "Have I submitted the best team possible". I have no control over what other people do or don't do.

Don't get me wrong Trucker - I appreciate your thoughts and I am beginning to understand your frustration.

Sorry for sounding too much like a knob but I feel strongly about this competition and if we change it, I want to do it for the right reasons.

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by gerry on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Macca wrote:Yeah Jase, but no one is wanting everyone to be posting like us...but actually communicating would be a start.

Ok. Break it down.
What would this mean to you?
What form of communication? How often? For what purpose?

Again, not to be a pain in the arse or in any way question your commitment. Just clarifying a point.

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by trucker on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:31 pm

i have only ever wanted change in this game for the right reasons

i see that now some of those decisions may not have been the best.
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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by Jason on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:33 pm

As Gerry said how do you define activity? Because for me, attending an AGM once a year and posting your team once a week isnt how I would describe an active coach.

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by gerry on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:38 pm

trucker wrote:i have only ever wanted change in this game for the right reasons

i see that now some of those decisions may not have been the best.

Ok, which ones? The number of retained players?

If not 2 top, 4 middle and 9 bottom (plus floater), what should it be?


BTW Truck you do know that you have first pick in next year's PSD should you decide to stick around.
Not that that should influence your decision...

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by Macca on Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:00 pm

The problem for me is not so much retainees...just the fact that they are retained at pick numbers.
I would now prefer we retained x amount of players...and they simply get plonked at the bottom of your list with no retainee pick number as this causes people to say "yeah but I got him at pick 21". Most people struggle to value judge between players let alone to value judge between players and then try to work out who is the better player based on their retainee pick number.

Who's better? Selwood at 14 or Ablett at 6?

If they were all just 'retained'...trades would happen for needs.
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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by croz on Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:34 am

Macca wrote:Fair enough.
Explain Andy then?

It would be easier to explain how women work than answer that question.

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by croz on Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:52 am

I am really bemused by this constant accusation that some coaches aren't 'passionate' and 'committed'.

If members of our league are going to continue to say this...be a man (or woman) and name those coaches.

I cant think of any. None.

As for Andy not attending the AGM, he had a pretty damn good excuse as he was supporting his wife as she was at a function for her party on the verge of a state election. Good on him.

Communication? Have you all tried EMAILING non-forum members asking for a trade? From what I understand, 6 coaches traded, 6 didnt. I for one have never been a huge trader. That's just me. I put a shite load of research into my pre season drafting and back my players. The other 5 are: Terriers and Truckers (are we questioning their commitment?), Maulers and Bangers (have NEVER been big traders), and Warthogs (not this year, but has always been willing to trade in the past).

Do we measure one's commitment to our great league by their contribution to this forum? No. This is just a small piece of cyber space where us fantasy football junkies can get our fix.

I believe this conversation happens each year. Is the ASFFL broken? I dont think so. Why try and fix it? Tinker, as we always do, but lets not go backwards. What would Julia Gillard want?

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by gerry on Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:56 am

Macca wrote:The problem for me is not so much retainees...just the fact that they are retained at pick numbers.
I would now prefer we retained x amount of players...and they simply get plonked at the bottom of your list with no retainee pick number as this causes people to say "yeah but I got him at pick 21". Most people struggle to value judge between players let alone to value judge between players and then try to work out who is the better player based on their retainee pick number.

Who's better? Selwood at 14 or Ablett at 6?

If they were all just 'retained'...trades would happen for needs.

I'm not convinced of this, Macca. Often such statements are used to ante up the bid and so are just fluff.
The problem with dismantling tiers is that people will just keep their best 16 players rather than having to decide which two players in the top tier they should keep, for example - quite a hard decision for some.

Again, I think that a big part of the reason things have been so even in the last two years is because of the retention and tier system.

Now you could argue that things have become less exciting and I am happy to work on ways to change this.
Again, compulsory trading could be the answer...but I am pushing a barrow.

More discussion, please.

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by Hero on Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:12 pm

Passionate discussion boys. It is great for the game. Congratulations to all finalists this year. It is a funny game, you never know what it will serve up. I wonder who will be the last man standing. Truck i don't think you should pull out of the competition. I personally believe it would be a great shame. Hey when people wanted to shaft me out of the competition because i couldn't attent the PSD i didn't feel great. And don't beat yourself up about the Heroes beating you. You know how this crazy game works. Keep punching mate.
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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by gerry on Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:26 pm

Hero wrote:Passionate discussion boys. It is great for the game. Congratulations to all finalists this year. It is a funny game, you never know what it will serve up. I wonder who will be the last man standing. Truck i don't think you should pull out of the competition. I personally believe it would be a great shame. Hey when people wanted to shaft me out of the competition because i couldn't attent the PSD i didn't feel great. And don't beat yourself up about the Heroes beating you. You know how this crazy game works. Keep punching mate.

Nice words, Andy. Good to see you are still passionate.
Pity you are such a knob.

BTW is this the first finals series you have missed?

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by Macca on Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:34 pm

First of many Twisted Evil
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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by Hero on Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:10 am

Fuck you and the horse you rode into town on. Game on next season Biatch. Seriously though it would be hard to swallow if you or Ken Obsby won the flag this year!
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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by croz on Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:39 am

Macca is the rant raving favourite!

I have NO goal kickers (for rest of season) and will start every game with minus 10 points.

Spartans to progress through to Rnd 2 of finals.

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by Macca on Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:01 pm

croz wrote:

Spartans to progress through to Rnd 2 of finals.

Beware the wounded Gladiator!!!!!

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by Jason on Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:48 am

Macca wrote:
Beware the wounded Gladiator!!!!!

I agree 100% Besides I can honestly say I am not confident of what my team will produce this week.

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Re: Truckers clariying statement

Post by Hero on Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:33 am

Ken Obsby will be leading with his chin. Don't under estimate the great man.
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